Talk:Murder

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Definition in lede

I changed the first line of the lede from "Murder is the unlawful killing of another human without justification or valid excuse, especially the unlawful killing of another human with malice aforethought" to "Murder is the unlawful killing of another human without justification or valid excuse committed with the necessary intention as defined by the law in a specific jurisdiction." I made the change because the term "malice aforethought" is no longer used in most US states; and insofar as it is still used, in its traditional meaning, it is an element of first degree murder/aggravated murder, rather than murder. Where it is still used as an element for murder, it has a different meaning from its original meaning. Last but not least, malice aforethought is a common law term, and, as such, it is inappropriate to use it as the definition of murder, since most countries in the world do not have common-law legal systems. Most jurisdictions require a specific form of intent for murder (eg. intention to kill, intention to cause grievous harm, gross recklessness - the latter may or may not qualify for murder depending on jurisdiction). For this reasons, I think "committed with the necessary intention as defined by the law in a specific jurisdiction" is appropriate for the lede.2A02:2F0F:B110:B500:1492:F9C7:4AFA:EAA6 (talk) 21:00, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Crimes against humanity category removal

Crimes against humanity is a specific legal concept. In order to be included in the category, the event (s) must have been prosecuted as a crime against humanity, or at a bare minimum be described as such by most reliable sources. Most of the articles that were formerly in this category did not mention crimes against humanity at all, and the inclusion of the category was purely original research. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:49, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 20 March 2024

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Change "Parker argues that seven motives that explain homicides are anger, concealment, jealousy, revenge, love and gain."

To "Peter argues that six motives that explain homicides are anger, concealment, jealousy, revenge, love and gain. Jkilograms (talk) 18:47, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just removed the entire sentence as unsourced, as it was not clear who "Parker" was. This was not added at the same time as the material above it, so not likely the same source. And I doubt it was Peter Parker. That kid's too nerdy to be involved in murder. He probably just sits at home all day playing with a chemistry set. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 19:27, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cain slaying Abel - nitpicking concern

The first image in this article is of Cain slaying Abel... which, at least by the definition we're using for this article, was not murder. "Murder" requires it to be illegal, and to the best of my not-very-Bible-focused understanding, there was no body of law saying that one could not kill existing at this pre-Ten Commandments moment. (This is in contrast to, say, the consumption of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which G-d had specifically proscribed.) That G-d chose to punish Cain seems more a matter of vengeance than law.

So this picture is understandable, but not ideal, and we should remain open to finding some alternative. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 15:56, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]