Talk:Hip hop music

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 19 August 2020 and 7 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Cgagyemang. Peer reviewers: Avlangst, Rebbekkah.

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ERAs

Disagree on the golden age. Golden age of hip-hop was 1988 to 1994 and that's pretty much consensus and has been for a long time now. 86 and 87 were not great years, and you can't count 95-97 because the game skill was in decline by that time. After 1994, the rhyme skill decline began and the over-commercialization machine was activated. Sure, we still had a lot of great acts compared to today, but those who know the art of rhyming could tell the music started to decline in skill gradually from that point forward. By 2000, unskilled rhymers like Nelly were dominating and hip-hop never recovered.

Also, I consider 2010-present the "Tight Pants Era" since it perfectly captures everything wrong with hip-hop today as well as appropriately shaming it for what it's become: Tight feminine clothes on the male rappers. Wack, unclever lyrics from 99.99999% of mainstream rappers, poor technical skills from many, and the listeners too brain dead to notice the issue. It's been an incredibly weird, incredibly wack time with no end in sight. ---- The Rhyme Critic, 11/13/2021

"FRENCH HIP-HOP"(Second Largest Hip-Hop market after the United States)

French Hip Hop was started by "Sidney Duteil". Sidney Duteil, better known as Sidney, is a French musician, rapper, DJ, television and radio host, and occasional actor of Guadeloupe origin, an island in the Caribbean. He is well known in France for his connection with the beginnings of the French hip hop scene. He presented a hip hop radio program on Radio 7 from 1982. In 1984, he was the host of the popular weekly French Rap television show entitled H.I.P. H.O.P., it was France's first television show and first regular nationwide weekly show in the world to be dedicated to the hip hop culture. It was broadcast each Sunday afternoon on the French national channel TF1 in 1984, from January 14, for 43 weeks, which had a certain impact on the beginnings of the French hip hop scene. They had guests such as Herbie Hancock on February 19, Sugarhill Gang, Kurtis Blow, Afrika Bambaataa, The Rock Steady Crew, Art of Noise or Madonna and graffiti artists such as Futura 2000. This was significant for two reasons: first because Duteil became the first Black man in France to hold such a position, and secondly because the birth and eventual popularity of the weekly show demonstrated the growing admiration and involvement in the French population in hip hop culture - TazzoThaboss — Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.254.157.18 (talk) 11:18, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Jamaican toasting wasn't the origin of hip hop; liking a theory isn't enough; no data supports the claim

Study probablity theory. Most of the time people mimic others, but they can also discover something alone because we all play and examine the abilities of the same body and find tricks. The primitive homo sapiens invented something resembling hip hop; not modern humans. If you claim that primitive people immediately knew how to sing opera you are a lier. Rhythm is more ancient than tonal theory and tonal control! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:587:4107:F900:293B:C3B7:DAC7:1C91 (talk) 03:21, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

I get it americans want to claim something for themselves and I have no problem with that but the fact is hip hop is danchall reggae. I get it, you're saying there are no facts to prove that and what you're saying is there are no written facts to prove that but you don't need written facts to prove it in this occasion.The 1st set of rap artists we're all West Indians majority of them Jamaicans. Now why do you think that is? Some of the biggest artists from the seventies and eighties were all West Indians so honestly why is that? I hate to be so blunt but black americans did not create hip hop. They changed it, not create. Please do some actual homework before posting a comment like this because even the wiki don't speak of the music true origin. 209.6.185.103 (talk) 00:47, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

This isnt true hip hop is an american creation created by black americans. Dance hall is actually influenced by hip hop it was created in the early 80s, while hip hop was created in 1970. Jamaican music pioneers like sir coxsone, count machuki, u-roy and bob marley are on video talking about the american influence on jamaican music. They're also on video admitting toasting came from copying americans rapping and jive talking. Kool herc and other caribbean people assimilated into an already existing american culture. Hip hop was understand before 1973, thats why herc and dj smokey both say hip hop started in 1970. Which is before herc became a dj. The story of herc creating hip hop and the 3 founding fathers of hip hop is a lie made up by africa bambaataa. Spade Power (talk) 16:56, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

2Pac

2Pac is nowhere to be found in the Overview. This seems to be a massive oversight and glaring omission, in any overview of the general history of hip hop music covering the West Coast in the 1990s. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:600:827F:EAD8:E938:9D40:4A18:8C9C (talk) 09:31, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Origin

Hip Hop was created by African American and Latino Americans in urban communities of the Bronx. Not only African Americans. There’s proof of this in history. The page needs to be edited correctly. Heribertovelazqueziii (talk) 21:40, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Latino people or their culture has no influence on hip hop culture or music. Hip hop culture and music is strictly an Black American / African American creation. Latinos have their own culture. Spade Power (talk) 16:59, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Hip Hop music wasnt created by Latinos at all. There is proof is this. Hip Hop was created by Rudy Ray Moore aka the Godfather of Hip Hop who is not Latino but African American. He created it in the late 60s and early 70s. The same man who would be known as Dolemite and he didn't do it in the Bronx at all. All the first rappers credit him as their influence and the creator of the genre. Try again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Musiccreed01 (talk • contribs) 18:57, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Nope! Hip hop is danchall reggae. 209.6.185.103 (talk) 00:50, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Latinos simply IMITATED what the neighboring blacks were doing. They had nothing to do with Hip Hop's origins. 4.59.43.82 (talk) 21:57, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Hip hop music was mainly created by African Americans and Afro-American Carribeans therefore they should be credited for it, Latino contribution to Hip Hop is limited. Hip hop is directly influenced by Reggae Music that comes from Jamaica. Besides that it is African Americans that have contributed in making it the art form it is today. Fjnplbv (talk) 09:27, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

Nope! Hip hop is danchall reggae. 209.6.185.103 (talk) 00:49, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Exactly. Always trying to steal our contributions. Give credit to where its due. Hip hop itself was created by a black american man named Rudy Ray Moore. Dj Kool Herc and more have credited the man as being the creator and their biggest influences. The man Dolemite who they did a tribute for and so many times through out the old videos and interviews to the new they stated Rudy Ray Moore created hip Hop.

Hip Hop was created by African Americans solely. Black Carribean and Latino immigrants only imitated African American culture, similar to what they still do today. African American culture is pop culture worldwide and influenced many other ethnicities and cultures. A few subcultures that branched off of African American genres (Hip-Hop, Rap, R&B, Blues, Jazz, etc) are subgenres such as Afrobeats and Reggae. Godfather of Afrobeats, Fela Kuti, traveled to America to study African American music to create the subgenre Afrobeats. Fela Kuti mentioned in an interview that his inspiration was African Americans such as James Brown, Bootsy Collins and the activist group known as “the Black Panther party”.

The creation of Reggae was influenced by the Rhythm and Blues created by African Americans. In the 1950s the music of Fats Domino, Ray Charles and Louis Jordan was played on the island via Southern American radio stations. Jamaicans inspired tried to imitate African Americans music style and they called the imitation “Reggae”. Judy Mowatt, a Jamaican singer, revealed in an interview that “they” would listen to Dionne Warwick, an African American singer, and try to sing exactly like her and they would study the African American female singing trio, the Supremes. Daddy Vego, Jamaican founder of “Original Peoples Sound” quoted in an interview, “At the time it was Rhythm & Blues. Jamaica plays most American stations. So, all the music we’re hearing American music. Following WWII many Jamaicans traveled to Southern states of the US on seasonal farm work where they encountered African Americans playing Jazz, Soul and Funk music. Inspired by African Americans Jamaicans followed in the footsteps of African Americans by practicing the genre on the island of Jamaica. Blakkbird (talk) 20:03, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Regarding the 2010s in hip hop

This decade has been absolutely massive for the genre, which has grown to dominate charts, popular culture, and internet culture in its place of origin, the United States, while enjoying breakout success globally as an export and in local forms. Rap features prominently in modern pop music and has seen notable crossover into electronic, alternative, and even country music. However, as of this writing the article fails to capture hip hop's place of importance in today's zeitgeist, save for a note mentioning that hip hop became the most popular genre in 2017.

With the 2010s drawing to a close, interested editors ought to overhaul this section, maybe with the assistance of decade end retrospectives as they begin showing up on music and culture websites.

--Adifex (talk) 01:50, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Birth year of hip-hop: 1973

Would August 11, 1973 be considered the official birthdate of hip-hop since that's when DJ Kool Herc first introduced a method of hip-hop djing at a party in The Bronx? A lot of news sources covered it such as the History Channel, Google Doodle, Complex Magazine, etc. A lot of hip-hop artists also consider that the birthdate too. TrackerMercurial136 (talk) 05:24, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 November 2019

Why is there that mid-title "Teargarden and Oceania" in the middle of the east-coast west-coast rivalry part??? 92.184.110.100 (talk) 09:39, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

I have no idea, but I've removed it. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 14:53, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 January 2020

Hello, there is some misinformation on the hip hop portion of the page that needs to be edited. The problem is in the beginning of the page. It misplaced that Latinos also created hip hop which this isn't true at all. Hip Hop was created by black american people and the black man instrumental in creating hip hop didn't come from Bronx, NY and wasn't in Bronx, NY when it was created. Actor and musician Rudy Ray Moore is regarded and confirmed as the creator of Hop Hop. Saying this takes the full contributions of black Americans and place a whole other group who didn't create the genre in taking credit which wasn't earned or given credit that isn't true. I can post links and more confirming my facts. I would like for the Latino portion to be removed from the top as the creator because its inaccurate. Latinos, like other groups, partook and partake in hip hop but did not influence its creation at all.

UPDATE WITH SOURCES:

Hello, this is me again. Here are some reliable sources fortelling that Hip Hop was only created by black americans and not latinos at all. That Rudy Ray Moore aka a black american man actually created hip hop.

https://time.com/5711219/dolemite-is-my-name-rudy-ray-moore-legacy/

https://www.biography.com/news/who-was-rudy-ray-moore-godfather-of-rap-dolemite

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95935377

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/22/movies/22moore.html

https://www.dia.org/events/origins-hip-hop-dolemite

Thank You for your time. Musiccreed01 (talk) 18:40, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Majavah ^(t/c) 18:42, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Nope, hip hop was not created by black Americans. It is danchall reggae in its true and original form period. Stop trying to make it into something it is not. 209.6.185.103 (talk) 00:55, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello, this is me again. Here are some reliable sources proving that Hip Hop was only created by black americans and not latinos at all. That Rudy Ray Moore aka a black american man actually created hip hop.

https://time.com/5711219/dolemite-is-my-name-rudy-ray-moore-legacy/

https://www.biography.com/news/who-was-rudy-ray-moore-godfather-of-rap-dolemite

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95935377

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/22/movies/22moore.html

https://www.dia.org/events/origins-hip-hop-dolemite

Reliable evidence HAS been posted, and it is MUCH MORE reliable then the sole opinion piece citation that calls for Latino inclusion in the origins of Hip Hop. 4.59.43.82 (talk) 22:04, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 January 2020

Hello, this is me again. Here are some reliable sources that you've requested that Hip Hop was only created by black americans and not latinos at all. That Rudy Ray Moore aka Dolemite aka a black american man actually created hip hop. I request that the latino american word be taken down as creators of hip hop when they had no influence in its creation and later partook in the genre, like other groups, after it was created and nothing more.

RELIABLE & Historical Proof and sources below:

https://time.com/5711219/dolemite-is-my-name-rudy-ray-moore-legacy/

https://www.biography.com/news/who-was-rudy-ray-moore-godfather-of-rap-dolemite

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95935377

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/22/movies/22moore.html

https://www.dia.org/events/origins-hip-hop-dolemite Musiccreed01 (talk) 19:21, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. DannyS712 (talk) 10:34, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

Let my vote be the second to AGREE with the removal of Latinos as the co-creators creators of Hip Hop. Therefore it is two to none, which makes a consensus. 4.59.43.82 (talk) 22:06, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 January 2020

Hello, I request an edit of the page hip hop because there is strong inaccurate information placed on one thing. In the article it is showing that Latinos are added as the creators of hip hop. This in fact is not true at all whatsoever. Hip Hop was created solely by African Americans aka black Americans. The black American man who is regarded and proven and confirmed to be the father or creator of hip hop is Rudy Ray Moore who is confirmed to be the godfather of hip hop. Rudy Ray Moore who is most famously known as the blackexploitation character Dolemite created Hip Hop in the late 60s early 70s.

The biggest influences of hip hop and the said founders all stated that Rudy Ray Moore is the creator of hip hop and their biggest influences. Latinos, like other groups of people, partook in the genre after it was created but didn't create nor help create it. This needs to be edited now because its giving false and inaccurate credit making it all uncredible to visitors. Thank You for your time. Here are the links to some of many extremely credible source:

https://time.com/5711219/dolemite-is-my-name-rudy-ray-moore-legacy/ https://www.biography.com/news/who-was-rudy-ray-moore-godfather-of-rap-dolemite https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95935377 https://www.dia.org/events/origins-hip-hop-dolemite https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/22/movies/22moore.html Musiccreed01 (talk) 19:42, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. DannyS712 (talk) 10:34, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

I too SECOND that Latinos having being the co-creators of Hip Hop be edited out of the article. That is a gross inaccuracy that is not supported by a legitimate source. The citation given is an "opinion" piece. 4.59.43.82 (talk) 21:59, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 February 2020

Under 1970s ---> Introduction of rapping, "Rudy Ray Moore" Should lead to the wikipedia page for that person. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Ray_Moore Typhic (talk) 08:09, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

 Done – Thjarkur (talk) 09:55, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 May 2020

"FRENCH HIP-HOP" in France (Second Largest Hip-Hop market after the United States) was started by "Sidney Duteil". Sidney Duteil (born Patrick Duteil in 1955 in Argenteuil, Val-d'Oise), better known as Sidney, is a French musician, rapper, DJ, television and radio[1] host, and occasional actor of Guadeloupe origin, an island in the Caribbean. He is well known in France for his connection with the beginnings of the French hip hop scene. He presented a hip hop radio program on Radio 7 from 1982. In 1984, he was the host of the popular weekly French Rap television show entitled H.I.P. H.O.P., it was France's first television show and first regular nationwide weekly show in the world to be dedicated to the hip hop culture. It was broadcast each Sunday afternoon on the French national channel TF1 in 1984, from January 14, for 43 weeks, which had a certain impact on the beginnings of the French hip hop scene. They had guests such as Herbie Hancock on February 19, Sugarhill Gang, Kurtis Blow, Afrika Bambaataa, The Rock Steady Crew, Art of Noise or Madonna and graffiti artists such as Futura 2000. This was significant for two reasons: first because Duteil became the first Black man in France to hold such a position, and secondly because the birth and eventual popularity of the weekly show demonstrated the growing admiration and involvement in the French population in hip hop culture - TazzoThaboss 153.254.157.18 (talk) 11:16, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

We would need some good sources to demonstrate that Sidney is noteworthy enough to mention in this large article. – Thjarkur (talk) 11:31, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 July 2020

Hip Hop is African American cultural music developed by African Americans in the inner city of New York.It was devoloped as an artistic outlet for African American youth to voice political, popular, musical, and racial violations against African Americans. Kay3457 (talk) 08:29, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Interstellarity (talk) 12:10, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

References

Important section

Is there no criticism about this genre? Because I'm sure there's a lot of people arguing "rap is not music" since the beginning of this genre. We need a criticism section. Enjoyer of World (talk) 00:10, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Disambiguation needed in the section 'World hip hop music': 9th paragraph refers to Hadouken! and incorrectly links to 'Hadouken' the Japanese game attack; ought to link to Hadouken! (band).109.155.83.4 (talk) 19:08, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

hip-hop history

Bold textwe have many kid rapper's that girl lay lay,young Dylan,sky kaze,and it goes on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:A601:AE0D:3300:79EF:3438:7CD0:4234 (talk) 15:19, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 February 2021

Hip-hop often has a rhythm with an odd meter time signature (5/8, 6/4 etc.), a funky bassline, music samples, soul music style singing and rapping. 83.137.6.238 (talk) 02:23, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. 54nd60x (talk) 04:50, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Articles related to Hip Hop

Could someone create a navigation box called Articles related to Hip Hop and put Rap rock in it? 2601:C7:C201:C640:D9C2:F2B4:E75C:1EAD (talk) 16:58, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

 Already done See Template:Hip hop ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:20, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

No. I meant: Could someone put a navigation box called Articles related to Hip Hip and put the templates for Hip Hop, American Hip Hop, and Rap Rock in it?

"Mumble rap" should not be recognized as a genre in this article

"Mumble rap" has always just been a buzzword used by critics (mostly older people) to unfairly invalidate modern rap music. This is supposed to be an informative and unbiased article. Fuegotakis (talk) 00:00, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Request for comment

There is an RfC ongoing about a topic that contributors to this article may be interested in. It can be found here. JimKaatFan (talk) 15:06, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

This definitely wasn't the first hip-hop song'

The first ever hip-hop song or proto-rap song was PRİSENCÓLİNENSİNÁİNCIÚSOL, composed by the Italian singer Adriano Celentano. 88.144.183.136 (talk) 20:39, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Your source ? Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:22, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Sex

Sex in hindi 2409:4064:2E1B:258B:0:0:52CB:9C0D (talk) 20:08, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

@2409:4064:2E1B:258B:0:0:52CB:9C0D what does this have to do with the hip hop talk page. can you be a little more specific. Ruach the creator (talk) 05:47, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Change range for blog era and trap era

It was 2015-2017 when trap really started to grow into bigger mainstream. Blog era was up till the mid 2010s . Blog should be up till 2015, 2016 the latest and trap really starting 2015 and or after mostly. By 2017-2018 trap became full blown with mumble growing more right after. Maybe instead of putting exact years you should just go by early mid late standard.

Like golden era mid 80s to mid 90s Bling late 90s to mid 00s Blog mid or late 00s to mid 10s Trap mid or late 10s to ? 2600:1700:A9B0:6B90:146:B3C6:FF75:CAF2 (talk) 06:57, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Hiphop

Why are TLC and Foxy brown and other Ladyraappers no in the list? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:16B8:A52:DC00:885A:6675:C76E:F90F (talk) 16:31, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Hip hop history being censored?

Why is this wikicontent on hip hop protected? It is because the hip hop narrative needs to be controlled by racists. Instead of showing that hip-hop is a creation of pluralistic American artist, these racists would like to steer the history towards an all black creation. The fact is that as early as 1980 performances by Chic/ Sugarhill gang / Blondie in NY ushered in hip-hop into mainstream American culture. The fact that a non-black band, Blondie, brought rap to mainstream America with their #1 Billboard Hot 100 hit Rapture in 1981 doesn't align with the narrative these racists are pushing is the real reason this entry is "protected." 69.124.49.215 (talk) 02:32, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

Under World hip hop music section, 7th paragraph

"Politik Pa m"

-->

"Politik Pam"

2605:A601:A388:3200:AD47:3B8B:B7CE:5A68 (talk) 01:46, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Communication and Culture

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 2 February 2021 and 14 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): This is Axel (article contribs).

Photos should represent the biggest names, not XXXTentacion

I have twiced removed a photo of XXXTentacion because he does not appear on WP:SECONDARY lists of the greatest rappers. I think this article should emphasize the most important points of the topic.

For instance, Complex magazine wrote up an exhaustive list of the biggest rap stars for every year from 1979 to 2022, including lengthy lists of names that were almost the biggest and they don't list XXXTentacion at all.[1] The Evening Standard in the UK made a smaller list in 2018, listing the most influential rappers chronologically from Kool Herc to Drake.[2] XXXTentacion is not listed. In 2020, Cleveland.com listed the top 50 rappers since 2000, and XXXTentacion is not on it.[3] In 2022, GQ magazine listed the 20 best hip hop albums of all time and XXXTentacion is not there.[4] In 2021, Music in Minnesota listed the 10 most influential rappers, and XXXTentacion wasn't mentioned.[5] In 2018, XXXTentacion won some awards for his album 17, but he was not listed by Complex magazine in their assessment of hip hop in the decade 2010 to 2020.[6]

Let's not promote the legacy of XXXTentacion in a non-neutral manner, emphazing his contribution out of balance with the sources. Binksternet (talk) 18:21, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Doja Cat has an image simply for being the most streamed rapper on Spotify on a singular year. If THAT deserves an image, having the best streaming rap album of all time on Spotify certainly warrants one.

Considering your less than neutral edits to say the least on the XXXTentacion page itself, it’s obvious you have some sort of negative personal connection to the artist and want to diminish the artist’s achievements and notability.

TheXuitts (talk) 20:41, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

The defense of Doja Cat's photo would have to include an attempt to counter gender bias on Wikipedia. Basically, we need to have some women rappers pictured. Her photo could of course be replaced with something else in the female line, for instance Lauren Hill or Queen Latifah or anybody listed as influential in articles such as "10 Female Rappers Who Changed the Hip-Hop Game" or "A History of the Female Rapper". Doja Cat and M.I.A. (rapper) are the only women represented in photos in this article, which is entirely inadequate. Those two are from the 21st century. Earlier female rappers had a gigantic influence.

Funny you should bring up my "less than neutral edits". The whole reason we are here now is because I am responding to your less than neutral promotion of XXXTentacion. You keep pumping that guy up beyond all reason. He was big for a brief time, but not so influential as you imagine. The most-streamed hip hop album on Spotify? That's not a measure of how big an artist is. The great majority of hip hop songs are streamed individually as part of playlists, not within albums, and more people are streaming Drake than any other rapper.[7][8] Do we have a photo of Drake? No we don't. Drake and a bunch of other cats are all in line ahead of XXXTentacion. Binksternet (talk) 22:00, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

I added the image because I saw the Doja Cat image and figured that if that is notable enough, so is the most-streamed album.

The counter to that justification for Doja Cat’s image would be, simply that more men are involved in hip hop than women. As a feminist, that’s just the reality of the situation, it doesn’t have to do with gender bias for this page specifically. If XXXTentacion’s image is to be removed, so should Doja Cat’s. TheXuitts (talk) 23:09, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

DJ Kool Herc didn’t bring Jamaican influence to America

DJ Kool Herc came to America at age 12. He was not in attendance at any Jamaican sound-system parties as a school-aged child, but he was a big James Brown fan. It is not sensible to say he “introduced an extended-break technique from Jamaican dub music” to early Hip Hop. He was too young to have been that involved in any live music culture while still in Jamaica. His influences as a DJ were almost all American. 2600:1001:B129:80E1:A501:EA04:8A39:2CF9 (talk) 15:19, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Hip Hop Music is Black American Created Music

Where on earth did these people get the silly idea that some "latinos" were involved in the creation of Hip Hop? They weren't! Notice how Wikipedia endorses cultural appropriation. Read the text, "Hip hop music or hip-hop music ... developed in the United States by inner-city African Americans, Caribbean Americans and Latino mericans in the Bronx borough of New York City in the 1970s."

The word used is "developed," meaning it was contributed to by others. Use the word "CREATED." No one created Hip Hop but Black people. The evidence is all over. This is Black Culture music, just as are Jazz, Blues, Swing, Rock n Roll, Soul, RnB. Black people factually created these genres and others thereafter were allowed to participate, contribute and even to help develop.

Another problem is the word "latin." Your article reads African-Americans, which is a race and ethnicity; then you state "latin" and "carribean." Latin is not a race nor is Caribbean. These are mere ethnic groups, which many overlap with Black. You have Black Latinos/Latinas and Black Caribbean. You are throwing a race with non-races, which includes even White and Mestizo (Native/American and White Heritage) as "developing" the genre. White people nor Mestizos "created" Hip Hop.

Notice, also, there is no footnote cited source after the sentence, because any source that claims that "latin" anything "developed," as if to imply "created," Hip hop is also false. You people engage in cultural appropriation and you use broad terms, that even include white people, to group them in with a defined race and ethnic group, Black. What is the race of the Latin? Puerto Rican, Mexican, Honduran, etc, are not races of people. If the Latin person were Black, what is the need to say "Latin"? It is irrelevant because it would merely need to read: Black people, regardless of ethnicity, developed Hip Hop.

The other problem that you have with this is that many of us are still around! We remember the early days of Hip Hop! It is Black American music in which Blacks did not object to others joining in and contributing. That is all they did! In Fact Rudy Ray Moore had been a pioneer, if not the originator formally so, of Hip Hop. In the late 60s, you are not going to find any latin involved. And if you do, it is very very very very few! Even then, they were contributing to a genre that had already been created. Do you people also plan to try to claim other genres as your own, just as you did Rock n Roll?

You are 100% wrong and 100% offensive.

Hip Hop is Black American "CREATED" music. Lordwind2020 (talk) 07:31, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Show Evidence That Latinos/Caribbeans Helped Create Hip Hop

I am most interested in your claim that Hip Hop began by Latinos and Carribeans. You have any proof for that claim? I bet you don't, because rap is older than the 70s. This is not disputable. Rudy Ray Moore raps in his comedy to music in the 60s. Rudy is called the God Father of Hip Hop. Hilarious! LOL Crazy Legs was born in 1966. Hip hop had already begun in the late 60s. Trying to Steal Black American Culture. Produce EVIDENCE for your claim. YOU HAVE NONE! Here: Rudy Ray Moore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Ray_Moore "The recordings often featured Moore delivering profanity-filled rhyming poetry, which later earned Moore the nickname "the Godfather of Rap." <==FROM YOUR VERY OWN WIKIPEDIA! LOL SHOW US PROOF! I showed proof by your VERY OWN WIKIPEDIA. LOL We have opened our culture to you and now we are going to start CLOSIING IT! We have had enough of your DISHONESTY and EXPLOITATION. The African-American Culture will become less embracing and sharing. There is no reconciliation anymore. Do not appropriate our culture. You're not welcomed. (Tried stealing Jazz too, but you did steal Rock n Roll.) Lordwind2020 (talk) 02:10, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia, Please Remove the Author's Unsubstantiated Claims

This author claimed that Hip Hop was created in the Bronx by African-Americans, Latinos and Carribean people. Where is the proof for that? The Author initially provided no citation. Upon requesting proof, the author provided the citation number 7. This citation directs you to: Vargas, Andrew S. (April 2, 2015). "NPR Recognizes We've Been Here Since Day 1 in A Latino History of Hip Hop". Remezcla. Retrieved January 11, 2022. This source does NOT say that Latinos created Hip Hop. It says that Latinos played a ROLE in Hip Hop, never was a creator of Hip Hop. This author is engaging in deception. Please remove this article or force the author to provide absolute proof that Hip Hop was created by African-Americans, Latinos and Carribeean. The fact is: Hip Hop is a term created by African-Americans, as Rap is a term used by African -Americans to mean talk, the God Father of Hip Hop is an African-American, and the first Hip Hop records were by African-Americaans. Why? Because Hip Hop is solely an African-American created genre. Latinos and Carribean people CONTRIBUTED to the genre, just as the author's citeed source reads Played a role and Contributed, but never Created it. Please cite your sources. I doubt you can, because the genre had already been created iin the late 60s but given a name in the early 70s by Cowboy. No latinos, who are not a race, were not around when even rapping began. Your source is deceptive because it does not say Latinos created hip hop. Lordwind2020 (talk) 07:43, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Page Needs to Be Entirely Rewritten

Much of what is written in this article is completely false or historically inaccurate, and there is also a lot of poor grammar and syntax.

DJ Kool Herc himself clearly said that there was no Jamaican cultural influence in the creation of hip hop. In fact, he said that if he had tried to play Jamaican music in the Bronx, no one would listen to it. He said that rapping has nothing to do with toasting and DJing has nothing to do with Jamaican sound systems. He also said that all of his hip hop influences came from James Brown and that even when he was living in Jamaica he was listening to James Brown.

The first breakthrough rapping songs were all either funk and disco or post-funk and post-disco. The other posts on this talk page noting that Caribbean and Latino influence is greatly overstated in the article are correct. 021120x (talk) 15:18, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Hip Hop Is Black American Music, Regardless Where Blacks Come From. All Blacks come From Africa.

Hip Hop is Black American Music. Where are your Latino and Hispanics? Latino and Hispanic are not RACES of people. You have Black Latinos/Hispanics, White Latinos/Hispanics, a few Asian Latinos/Hispanics, and Mesttizo (Native-American/Mixed Latinos/Hispanics). Let us be clear that it is not even proper to say BLacks (who are a race) and Latinos/Hispanics (who are of all races). The comparison is as silly as saying "Whites and Americans." Does that make sense? No. There are Whites who are also American so you can never say Whites versus Americans.

Second point: All People come from Black Africans. Technically, ALL music comes from Blackk people. ALL people are descendants of Black Africans. These are GENETIC FACTS!!! Genes speak the entire story. Technically, you other groups are nothing but genetic mutations of Black African people. Sorry that scientific fact gets in the way. Blacks lived on the planet without such other such "mutated groups" for MOST of humanity's existence. Scientific and historic fact.

Third point. Why does Wikipedia keep trying to say "Latinos" were involved in creating Hip Hop? Which race? Black Latinos? White Latinos? Asian Latinos? Mestizo Latinos? Why do you mention the Black race and then switch talk about some made up Ethnic Groups! Notice, I say: Ethnic Groups. Just as Hispanics are not the same race and color, they are also not the same ETHNIC GROUP not matter how many times people have tried saying otherwise. Let me show you: Black Puerto Ricans are not the same ETHNIC GROUP as Asians in Brazil as Whites in Mexico or Mestizos in Honduras! Just as Black Americans are NOT the same ETHNIC GROUP as Blacks Ashanti of Ghana but both are the same race!

(I know I have destroyed all of such bullcrap myths! I know.)

So where are your "Hispanics and Latinos" that "created" Hip Hop? Where are they? Show me. If you could, it would only be only a few and not the driving force of its' creation. Notice Wikipedia tried changing the footnote in the beginning but then says this, "Many of the people who helped establish hip hop culture, including DJ Kool Herc, DJ Disco Wiz, Grandmaster Flash, and Afrika Bambaataa were of Latin American or Caribbean origin." Why did you not say that the Black Americans who established Hip Hop are from Black African origin? Why did you exclude Black Americans' origins? Because you would have to say that Hip Hop is from Black African origin, because the Afrika Bambaataa, Kool Herc, Grandmaster Flash's origins are immediately from Black Africa originally, not some mere island. Even the "Hispanic" person's origins are from Black Africa.

Now, did you all notice the line up? All clearly Black people, but one. DJ Disco Wiz, Mr. Luis Cedeño. Where does Mr. Luis Cedeño get his nurturing, mentoring and inspiration from? Answer: AFrika Bambaataa. Mr. Luis Cedeño has no business being listed as if he was an ORIGINATOR. You don't learn from other cultures and claim you are an "ORIGINATOR." You notice how Wikipedia wanted to (1) allude to the fact that Hip Hop is not only Black American, as they mentioned other groups former home where the music never even originated, but they never mention Black Americans' former immediate home, which is Black Africa. Guess What? That is the former home of the other Blacks; (2) Never tell you that Mr. Luis Cedeño learned from Mr. Afrika Bambaataa. They battled each other eventually as teacher and student, but Mr. Luis Cedeño has no place with the teacher as a "Creator."

The fact is: I would welcome Non-Black Hispanics and Latinos. But you cannot find any! Why? Because they were STUDENTS and GUESTS, not creators of Hip Hop. Hip Hop is named by a Black man. The God of Hip Hop is a Black man. The genre is primarily pushed by Black People. Breakdancing comes from Black people, and when non-Black Hispanics join in, Blacks are not doing it anymore. It is old! scratching is created by a Black man. DJing and Graffiti are nothing unique to Hip Hop. Mentioning those is like saying having ALBULMS and RECORDS are part of Hip Hop! That is nothing UNIQUE to Hip Hop! In fact, graffiti in music is not and does not come from Hip Hop.

sorry, Non-Black Hispanics for trying to steal BLACK CULTURE! Try again! Oh, I guess you would try, considering you are nothing but a DESCENDAnT OF BLACK AFRICANS TO BEGIN WITH! Do not offend the very people as to why humanity has such variation. Only Black people can make that claim just only Black Americans can claim creating Hip Hop. You joined in later and contributed, sure; but you are NOT THE ORIGINATORS.

I am happy to educate. :)

Wikipedia, make them cite their unbias sources or delete it. Mr. Luis Cedeño is not an "originator" just as the first Latino Rapper Mr. Whipple was influenced by the brother Kool Herc. Mr. Whipple is no more an originator than is Mr. Luis Cedeño who was mentored, influenced and taught by Afrikaa Bambaataa. Wikipedia, are you encouraging misinformation about Black American Culture? Make people cite their sources or disallow their saying it. Notice, everytime they include a non-Black Hispanic/Latino, these individuals are inspired, taught or influenced by BLACK PEOPLE who live in America. Lordwind2020 (talk) 13:01, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

A book to use for more info

The Rise of Hip-Hop Kdammers (talk) 18:59, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

German Hip Hop

The parts about the German rap scene sound like they were written by some leftist sociology major. For me as a German and long-time listener of German rap it's silly how half of it is about there being "several Turkish performers" and the other half about nazi comparisons. Sure, I get it: When Americans hear Germany, they immediately think of Hitler, who can blame them? At least Bushido and Fler are actually famous rappers who were arguably important for the development of German gangster rap. Portraying them as some sort of almost-nazis is just ridiculous. Fler did play with nazi aesthetics, not because he would endorse nazism in any way but, well, I'd say 95% to get attention and 5% to emphasize him being one of the few ethnic Germans in a subculture dominated by sons of migrants. Similar to how Eminem has played with his whiteness. As for Bushido it's laughable that everything an unaware reader reads about him is one semi-controversial line with a Hitler comparison. It would be much more interesting to read about his involvement with organized crime for instance. It's even more absurd as Kool Savas is mentioned who used far more crass nazi comparisons in his early days... obviously also not because he was somehow sympathetic with nazism but because he was one of the first German battle rappers long before the type of wokey who would write such an article was born. Ask any German rap fan over 30 who is the king of rap, I bet 90% would answer Kool Savas. Today, there are many rappers with similar or better skills, but he was perhaps the first really outstanding German rapper. And yes, he is of Turkish descent. As for the others: Azad is proudly Kurdish and I don't think he would enjoy being reduced to his supposed Turkishness. And I've never heard of Cartel. Long story short: You focus on weird particularities instead of outlining what was actually important in the development of German rap. Kool Savas, Bushido, Fler and Azad certainly were and are important for German hip hop but not for being Turkish or dropping a Hitler line. But because they were 4 of the earliest commercially successful rappers. Before them, there were the likes of Die Fantastischen 4 and Fettes Brot, who were more of the harmless, pop rap type (think Beastie Boys) plus some legends that never became truly successful in the wider mainstream, like Torch. A name that is missing is Sido, by the way: He was a member of Aggro Berlin together with Bushido and Fler. They were the first to become hugely successful with German rap parents wouldn't want their children to listen to. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.191.152.24 (talk) 23:20, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

"Math rap" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Math rap and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 January 22 § Math rap until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 21:23, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

playboi Carti should be added to the 2014 -present "trap and SoundCloud era"

I can't dot it myself. but playboi Carti has is considered to be a very successful SoundCloud rapper. so he should be included in the list. most likely next to lil Uzi vert. his "self titled" mixtape came out April 14th, 2017 and "die lit" came out May 11th, 2018 Ruach the creator (talk) 14:07, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

"Rap and hiphop" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Rap and hiphop has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 18 § Rap and hiphop until a consensus is reached. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 17:25, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 May 2023

If possible, please tweak "1997-2006: Bling era" to "1997-2007: Bling era",

"2006-2014: Blog era" to "2007-2012: Blog era",

and "2014-present: Trap and the rise of the SoundCloud rap scene" to "2014-present: Trap and rise of the SoundCloud and TikTok scenes"

These sources have the Blog era as spanning 2007-2012. 204.111.198.152 (talk) 21:23, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

References

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. This appears to be a major change requiring a fuller discussion. Try reaching out to the relevant WikiProjects (see the top of the talk page). voorts (talk/contributions) 03:21, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Intellectual honesty

Of course "King Tim III (Personality Jock)" is a rap record. Its style and content are virtually identical to "Rapper's Delight." 173.88.246.138 (talk) 22:31, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Shouldn't the rap song "Enterprise," which was released on an album of the play Runaways (Original Broadway Cast Recording) on July 7, 1978, which was even earlier than "King Tim III (Personality Jock)," be mentioned in this article? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 23:25, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is based on WP:SECONDARY sources, none of which you have cited to support your case. Conjecture isn't appropriate here. Binksternet (talk) 23:36, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Former Featured Article

This article is formerly featured. What can we do to make it featured again ? 🤔🤔🤔 MrBeastRapper (talk) 17:05, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Kool Herc

There's a section in the article stating Kool Herc denies any direct connections between Jamaican musical traditions and early hip hop. However, in a 2020 interview, Herc stated Jamaicans needed to reclaim hip hop because Jamaicans were the ones who bought the style and techniques to America that later became hip hop.?

DJ Kool Herc Wants Jamaica to Reclaim Hip-Hop - The Source

Shouldn't Herc's view in that 2020 interview also be incorporated into the article?

Many thanks Koppite1 (talk) 16:52, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Just added it. Thanks 23impartial (talk) 14:10, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Racist content

Please remove the content in the article that talks about “the blacks” and “the whites”. 2601:14D:5000:D150:B5D3:C6C3:5534:DC52 (talk) 01:50, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Misinformation

This statement "Since then, the breakout success of artists like Eminem and Nicki Minaj circa 2000 and 2010, respectively, has proven that Whites and women can rap" needs to be changed. Yes Eminem's success proved that Whites could rap but we knew long before Nicki Minaj that women could rap. She stands in the shoulders of women like Roxanne Roxanne, Queen Latifah, MC Lyte, Salt N Peppa, Yo-Yo, Foxy Brown, Left Eye and many more. It wasn't Nicki that showed us women could rap. Kelran79 (talk) 17:49, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. This was added recently, I've gone back to the older version before these personal opinions were inserted per WP:NOR. MrOllie (talk) 18:08, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

@MrOllie: While doing that, you also happened to delete a lot of cited content, including the text merged into the article from Kool DJ Dee. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 16:13, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 December 2023

Hip-hop was created by Black-Americans alone. Carribean immigrants had nothing to do with the creation of Hip-hop. Carribean immigrants only appropriated the culture and sampled Black-American music/beats to do so. The art form of Rap and Hip-Hop is solely Black-American. Blakkbird (talk) 23:16, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 03:46, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 December 2023 (2)

Dancehall and Reggae need to be removed from the stylistic origins list. Dancehall and Reggae were created by Jamaicans when they were attempting to appropriate The Blues, which was created by Black-Americans. On the Reggae and Dancehall Wikipedia pages, The Blues and Black-American need to be listed as being the inspiration. Jamaicans would not have a form of music if not for following in Black-Americans footsteps. Blakkbird (talk) 23:22, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Rehsarb (talk) 21:52, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Hip Hop 50

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 31 January 2024 and 4 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Egna389 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by KING162 (talk) 16:31, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 June 2024

94.205.80.90 (talk) 11:58, 7 June 2024 (UTC) We love cench niggas

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Charliehdb (talk) 13:02, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

CENCH

is a nigggaaa 94.205.80.90 (talk) 11:59, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 September 2024

Add to Category:African-American music and Category:Hispanic American music because it originated with African Americans and Hispanics. 163.5.121.233 (talk) 08:55, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

 Done Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 03:16, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Black American Music F24

This article is currently the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 August 2024 and 9 December 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Mrsddhines (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by sheridanford (talk) 22:40, 10 October 2024 (UTC)