Talk:Beauty

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While there were many excellent points made regarding how beauty is observed in different cultures and the general impact it has in society, I believe there could be information added on how the term "beauty" and its expectations has changed throughout the years and how these changes have impacted society's view on beauty. Jdo pharmd (talk) 05:05, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pic in Lede

Hi all, again. In my notes I recently came across the enlightening discussion about the lede pic in the archives, which I first mentioned in 2017. The pic of the rose window is still there, although the caption was suitably modified. I still have considerable difficulty with the pic. We discussed a number of possible alternatives, but as usual in such philosophical matters, there was no satisfactory conclusion to suit all parties. I still feel that the rose window from Chartres cathedral (however aesthetically pleasing) is particularly off-putting to non-christians, and has no meaningful place as a defining image at the top of the article, which is mostly about the aesthetics and philosophy of beauty.

I would suggest that there is no possible image which might seem suitable to everyone, given the vast voids between various world cultures: and that instead, no image should appear at the top of the article, since any picture tends to validate a particular world view. MinorProphet (talk) 16:18, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. I'm not a Christian (although part of a historically Christian culture) and that image looks like a cluttered mess to me. I have no doubt the actual window is rather awesome to see, in the literal sense of that word, but our image doesn't show it. Even when I click on it and expand it to its greatest available magnification, I still can't tell what the detail of the image is. This is showing the fundamental problem with photographs in a place like Wikipedia, not any judgement on my part on whether the subject of that pic is beautiful. And we obviously also have the problem of the subjective nature of beauty. So yes, unless we can agree on a pic with a caption along the lines of "Beauty as perceived by church architects in the 12the century in France", no picture would be the best solution. HiLo48 (talk) 01:14, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There were already several lengthy discussion in the archives without consensus. MOS:LEADIMAGE says It is common for an article's lead or infobox to carry a representative image and the lead image should be a natural and appropriate representations of the topic. I'm open to using a different image or possibly a multiple image. To avoid overly culture-specific conceptions of beauty, one could use an image of natural beauty, like a landscape, a sunrise, a flower, a field of flowers, etc. This would probably be better than having no image. Phlsph7 (talk) 07:57, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I support the idea of an image of natural beauty. Could we agree on one? HiLo48 (talk) 08:54, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I added a few candidates below. Any preferences or other suggestions? Phlsph7 (talk) 09:28, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No. 2 please. HiLo48 (talk) 10:14, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Phlsph7 (talk) 07:42, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image suggestions

Sorry, but yech to all of these. Nothing wrong with the natural world, but these pics merely appeal to the visual senses. Eye of the beholder, and all that. Why should be beauty be pictorial and emotional? I find intellectual beauty far more satisfying, as exemplified in Giordano Bruno's neo-Platonic dialogue De gli Eroici Furori ('The Heroic Frenzies'). Bruno (1548–1600) discusses the paths of heroic love in its search for the supreme good, and of the heroic intellect in its search for the supreme truth and beauty. He takes as a starting-point a sonnet by Tansillo on the the ancient myth of Diana and Actaeon as recounted by Ovid in his Metamorphoses. This was explored pictorially 100 years previously by Titian in Diana and Actaeon, but I am certainly not suggesting this as an image (dead white men etc.)

I still prefer Malevich's Black Square which continues to be artistically and philosophically challenging. I know that it's not the sort of thing that yer average reader wants to be confronted by, but the article does in fact concentrate on the philosophical and metaphysical aspects of the concept, not "Oh, isn't that just lovely?" The perceptive reader of the article (the lede is exceptionally good when shorn of an image) will surely feel hard done by when confronted with something emotionally equivalent to a spring lamb. Pass the mint sauce, please. MinorProphet (talk) 18:15, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They burned him alive for his ideas, by the way, in the middle of Rome. MinorProphet (talk) 23:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]