Talk:Monkey King

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 January 2019 and 15 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Chenny1. Peer reviewers: Tnrud23.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 04:25, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

The Monkey Series (Books)

I have created a draft article about the Monkey Series (Books), but I do not have a huge amount of detail for the series (other than owning almost the complete set now). I was debating submitting the draft article for publication anyway, but I now think it might make more sense to simply merge the contents of that article as a sub-sub-section under Influences: Manga and animation on this page if no-one objects. Mwenechanga (talk) 20:03, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 25 September 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved. (non-admin closure) Steel1943 (talk) 17:59, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

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Sun Wukong → Monkey King – It would appear that "Monkey King" is now the far more WP:COMMONNAME in English sources, looking at a Google Books search (9,790 for "Sun Wukong" vs. 78,000 for "Monkey King"; and the vast majority of the latter hits do intend this character). There's also a Use English issue as well as the fact that the character is well known in many other countries, like Japan and Korea, where he is known by local names rather than the Mandarin "Sun Wukong". Cúchullain ^t/c 14:59, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

• On another note, the Anthony C. Yu translation of The Journey to the West, published by the University of Chicago and considered the best modern English translation, uses "Monkey King".--Cúchullain ^t/c 15:12, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
• Support; in addition to being more recognizable by English speakers, the new title also avoids the issue with different transliterations from different Chinese dialects. feminist (talk) 15:48, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

hello

wasuo 2601:344:4002:CC0:88A5:17BB:C946:896F (talk) 02:54, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Sun Wukong in Monkie Kid

Alr so the reason im here is that: In the section Television, comics and action, should we mention that he's a character in Lego Monkie Kid? RebelUltra (talk) 22:54, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

mentions a serial killer in the article

Can someone correct the article? Just under the varied names he goes by someone has edited the name a John Wayne Gacy into the article. 69.14.154.42 (talk) 18:41, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

 Done – Thanks! Favonian (talk) 18:45, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Monkey King fictionality

Does monkey King really count as fictional when he's worshipped? IndianEmperor7 (talk) 05:04, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

I think a better description would be "literary and religious figure." Ghostexorcist (talk) 02:28, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

The True Great Sage Heaven's Equal

Sun Wukong has been addressed as 'Monkey King' (not including 'Handsome Monkey King'), 4 times after Chapter 7. The words 'Great Sage' appear over ONE THOUSAND times in the book. Overseas people only refer to him as 'Monkey King', it's gotten so bad that if you use google translate, '齐天大圣' becomes 'Monkey King' instead of 'Great Sage Equal to Heaven'. 齐天大圣 六耳猕猴 (talk) 17:11, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Mahakapi jatak

sun wukong also tital monkey king sane Hass mahakapi jataka buddha past life story buddha was monkey king and Chinese novel also inspird by Chinese traval come India and study nalanda university 😀 they talk about buddha mahakapi jataka please don't try to change 🙏🙏 Ketanwasnik 098 (talk) 18:20, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

You have provided no source to support this addition. You should stop trying to add this without one. MrOllie (talk) 18:26, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

have you mind you read mahakapi jataka Ketanwasnik 098 (talk) 18:37, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

This article is about a character in a novel. The Novel does not mention what you're trying to add, at all. Your edits are both unsourced and factually incorrect - but you apparently know this, since the rest of your edits are vandalizing various religious articles. MrOllie (talk) 18:39, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Infobox states Source material is from 2009

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the source material (Journey to the West) stated to be published circa 1592. 103.87.234.10 (talk) 21:19, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

 Done - Changed to c. 1592 (print) Vyeh3 (talk) 14:50, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

GoogleTrends shows Wukong is searched for 99.9% more than Monkey King

GoogleTrends shows Wukong is searched for 99.9% more than Monkey King Since Black Myth: Wukong release. Can we at least have a separate page for Wukong, the origin character, for those looking for accurate lore? 齐天大圣 六耳猕猴 (talk) 21:11, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: English 111 First-Semester College Composition

This article is currently the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 25 August 2024 and 14 December 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): BazookaRay1 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Goodfood111.

— Assignment last updated by Goodfood111 (talk) 19:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I am new here and want to contribute

I hope I can be of some service to everyone who wants to improve this article as well. Maybe I could be suggested some ways that I could help, like research or editing? Otherwise, I could perhaps pitch my ideas here and see what you think? Besides that, I wonder if it’s ok to use Google Translate, or some other program for any possible translation problems I may have in the future. Thank you for your time, have a nice day.BazookaRay1 (talk) 21:51, 17 October 2024 (UTC)BazookaRay1 (talk) 21:50, 17 October 2024 (UTC) BazookaRay1 (talk) 21:49, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

On Ramayanas

First of all, this page is trending on some platforms in China so we will face (or are facing) SPAs and vandals.

So about the Ramayana information in the History section (See PermaLink), the article discussed Thai and other Indochinese versions of the Ramayana which is not really related to the Monkey King and could be considered as off-topic or promoting OR. Ref #15 (Xue, Yuyun) does not even mention the Monkey King. I suggest remove the content "He looks particularly at ... between India and China."

 — 魔琴 (Zauber Violino) [ talk contribs ] 06:30, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

I don't think you need to discuss content that is irrelevant to the topic. I think you just need to focus on whether the cited sources have been misused, rather than whether there are any violations. So I think only need to focus on the latter part of your discussion. YuelinLee1959 (talk) 07:10, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

I have my own statement below on how to revise it to accurately convey the meaning of the cited sources, and I think it would be best to discuss these. YuelinLee1959 (talk) 07:14, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Misuse and misrepresentation of cited sources, along with splicing references in a way that contradicts the original intent of the authors.

The statement in the article"However, recent research has suggested that Lu Xun’s observed lack of evidence about the translation of the Ramayana is not true. The Indian literary scholar A. K. Ramanujan had written about the numerous" is a kind of misuse the source. The source used to claim "Lu Xun’s observed lack of evidence about the translation of the Ramayana is not true" is How Lord Ram Reached China. However, this source explicitly states " A direct translation of the two epics into Chinese is something that happened only in recent years. Mi Wenkai’s translation is perhaps the first when he rendered the epics in prose in 1950. In 1962, Sun Yong also translated both the epics, however, these were translated from English versions. Ji Xianlin became the first Chinese scholar to translate Ramayana from Sanskrit into Chinese during the height of the Cultural Revolution, risking his life."

The cited source explicitly states that the earliest translation of the Ramayana in China was in 1950, four to five hundred years after Journey to the West was written. It clearly mentions that this was China’s first Ramayana translation. Therefore, how can this source be used to refute "Lu Xun’s observed lack of evidence"? Lu Xun's point was that there is no evidence proving that the Ramayana was translated into Chinese during the time of Journey to the West. The cited source also confirms that the first translation in China was in 1950, 500 years after Journey to the West was completed, which aligns perfectly with Lu Xun’s statement.

The second cited source is Ji Xianlin, the first person to translate the Ramayana into Chinese. His original words state that, although mainstream scholars believe that the Ramayana never reached China, he personally speculates that some parts of the Ramayana story might have made their way into China.

First, this is merely his personal speculation. Second, he himself acknowledges that most or mainstream scholars believe that the Ramayana was never introduced to China before. Third, this is not "recent research," as the article claims. Ji Xianlin wrote this over 70 years ago, so it cannot be considered recent research. Moreover, Ji Xianlin and Lu Xun were contemporaries, meaning Ji Xianlin's work is not more recent than Lu Xun’s.

Additionally, Ji Xianlin’s work is primary research, conducted when he translated the text, whereas Wikipedia requires secondary sources for citations, not primary research.

As for A.K. Ramanujan, he was referring to the influence of the Ramayana on Southeast Asia. He did not mention China, nor did he mention Sun Wukong.

Therefore, it would be better to change this paragraph to "The Ramayana was first translated into Chinese by Ji Xianlin in 1950, more than 400 years after Journey to the West was written. This was the first Chinese translation of the Ramayana. Although Ji Xianlin speculated that some related stories might have circulated in China before that, he also acknowledged that most scholars believe the Ramayana had not been translated into Chinese prior to this." — Preceding unsigned comment added by YuelinLee1959 (talk • contribs) 07:05, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

After a rough browse through the related references, I agree. However, your version is still kind of redundant. How about

However, Ji Xianlin, the Chinese translator of Ramayana, speculated that partials of the epic might have circulated in China way before written translations.

 — 魔琴 (Zauber Violino) [ talk contribs ] 10:30, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

@YuelinLee1959.  — 魔琴 (Zauber Violino) [ talk contribs ] 14:57, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

I still hope to include the translation date, as the current edited version seems to claim that China had a translation of the Ramayana a long time ago, even before the Journey to the West was written. However, the cited sources actually state that the earliest confirmed translation is Ji Xianlin's 20th-century version, although Ji Xianlin himself speculated that related stories might have made their way into China earlier.

The current controversy lies in the fact that the editors are trying to use these two sources to refute Lu Xun's view, but the sources themselves are consistent with Lu Xun's opinion. Lu Xun argued that there is no evidence proving that the Ramayana was translated into Chinese before Journey to the West was written, and these two sources also state that the earliest translation appeared several hundred years after Journey to the West was completed.

I suggest "The Ramayana was first translated into Chinese in the 20th century, 500 years after Journey to the West was written, by Mi Wenkai, Sun Yong and Ji Xianlin, although Ji Xianlin speculated that parts of the epic might have circulated in China before written translations." After check the source, I see three earliest translator and all of them are around from 1950 - 1970 which is 20th century.

If you can accept my statement, I will start editing. Or you can edit it yourself, either way works.YuelinLee1959 (talk) 17:01, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

I'm going to proceed with editing based on what I wrote. If you want to modify my version later, feel free to do so at any time. I’ll keep discussing until we reach the most suitable version. YuelinLee1959 (talk) 19:51, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

@YuelinLee1959 @魔琴 Besides the debate on the translation date of the Ramayana, I think it’s worth noting that Ji Xianlin, in his own words, said, "It is plausible to say that Sun Wukong came through the South China Sea instead of coming directly from India," in his article "The Ramayana in China." Even if the Ramayana had any influence on the creation of Sun Wukong (which is not proven by any evidence), the influence was indirect.

Unless there is clear proof that the creation of Sun Wukong was directly inspired by the Ramayana, it would be redundant to introduce the Ramayana and its influence across Asia on the Monkey King page. Instead, such content should be included on the Ramayana page itself. Kingzwbq (talk) 01:45, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

References

Sun wukong origin

Sun Wukong, the legendary Monkey King from the classic Chinese novel "Journey to the West," has roots in Buddhist mythology, particularly from the Mahakapi Jataka.

The Mahakapi Jataka is a Buddhist tale about a powerful monkey king who is said to have lived in ancient India. The story is part of the Jataka tales, a collection of stories about the previous lives of the Buddha.

Similarities between Sun Wukong and Mahakapi:

1. *Monkey Kingship*: Both are monkey kings with extraordinary strength, agility, and leadership. 2. *Mischievous Nature*: Both are known for their cunning and playful personalities. 3. *Devotion to the Buddha*: Both stories feature the monkey king's reverence for the Buddha or Buddhist monks. 4. *Superhuman Abilities*: Both possess supernatural powers, such as shape-shifting and flying.

"Journey to the West" is one of China's Four Great Classical Novels, inspired by the true travels of Xuanzang (602-664 CE), a Buddhist monk who journeyed to India to retrieve sacred scriptures.

• Xuanzang's Journey:*

In 629 CE, Xuanzang embarked on a 16-year journey along the Silk Road to India, seeking Buddhist texts. He traveled over 10,000 miles, facing numerous challenges, and returned to China in 645 CE.

• Key aspects of Xuanzang's journey:*

1. *Buddhist scriptures*: Xuanzang sought to clarify Buddhist teachings and collect sacred texts. 2. *Silk Road*: He traveled through present-day China, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India. 3. *Cultural exchange*: Xuanzang's journey facilitated cultural and intellectual exchange between China and India.

• Inspiration for "Journey to the West":*

The novel, written by Wu Cheng'en (1500-1582 CE), fictionalizes Xuanzang's journey, incorporating:

1. *Mythology*: Supernatural creatures, gods, and demons. 2. *Folklore*: Chinese legends and tales. 3. *Adventure*: Fantastic stories of battles, challenges, and magical powers.

• Main characters:*

1. *Tang Sanzang* (based on Xuanzang): The Buddhist monk leading the journey. 2. *Sun Wukong* (Monkey King): A powerful, mischievous monkey. 3. *Zhu Bajie* (Pigsy): A half-human, half-pig disciple. 4. *Sha Wujing* (Sandy): A water buffalo demon.

Xuanzang's travelogue doesn't explicitly mention the Mahakapi Jataka. However, as a Buddhist scholar, Xuanzang was familiar with Jataka tales, including Mahakapi.

• Connections between Xuanzang and Mahakapi Jataka:*

1. Buddhist canon: Xuanzang studied and translated various Buddhist texts, including Jataka tales. 2. Indian influences: During his journey, Xuanzang encountered Indian Buddhist traditions, where Mahakapi Jataka was well-known. 3. Inspiration for Wu Cheng'en: Xuanzang's accounts of Indian folklore and Buddhist mythology likely influenced Wu Cheng'en's incorporation of Mahakapi-inspired elements into Sun Wukong's character.

• Mahakapi Jataka's influence on Sun Wukong:*

Wu Cheng'en drew parallels between Mahakapi and Sun Wukong:

1. Monkey kingship 2. Supernatural powers 3. Mischievous nature 4. Devotion to the Buddha

While Xuanzang didn't directly mention Mahakapi Jataka, his travels and writings contributed to the cultural exchange that inspired Wu Cheng'en's creative fusion of Buddhist mythology and Chinese folklore.

• Sources:*

1. Xuanzang's "The Journey of the Monk Xuanzang" 2. Wu Cheng'en's "Journey to the West" 3. Buddhist Jataka tales, including Mahakapi Jataka China mango cave mahakapi jataka refers to:

• Mahakapi Jataka*: A Buddhist tale from Jataka stories, where Lord Buddha in his previous life was a wise and compassionate monkey king, Mahakapi.

• China connection*: This story is depicted in Chinese art and literature, particularly in cave temples and murals, such as:

1. Mogao Caves (Dunhuang): A UNESCO site with ancient Buddhist paintings and sculptures. 2. Yungang Grottoes (Datong): Another famous Buddhist cave temple complex.

• Mango cave*: Possibly refers to a specific cave or mural depicting the Mahakapi Jataka story, where the monkey king shares mangoes with the king.